Alberto Cairo recently appeared on The PolicyBiz Podcast and shared that talking to Jon Schwabish is always a pleasure. Jon, he says, is one of the most active and knowledgeable people in the visualization world, author of a few really good books—Alberto’s favorite is Better Data Visualizations: A Guide for Scholars, Researchers, and Wonks, and, Alberto added, Jon is a great popularizer of their craft.

In this episode, Alberto and Jon shared some thoughts on getting difficult books finished, the changing landscape of visualization literature, the future of visualization and data journalism conferences, the lack of a dominant online platform where designers post their work and discuss it, Alberto’s reasons-not-rules approach to design, and how to apply it not only to the practice, but also to teaching.  They also spoke about Alberto’s latest book The Art of Insight: How Great Visualization Designers Think.

Listen now on YouTube: